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Jewish Settlers in the West Bank are still attacking and persecuting Palestinians.
Personally I think Israel should not be supported by the West and be forced to hand the occupied territories back to the Palestinians.
Because a stupid set of fake books and Zionist propagandists conning the British into giving them land is no real solid basis for existence of a territory.?
But Zionism is still gaining strength and Jews are more determined to take over the land they claim their dumb, outdated God / Yahweh, gave to them.??
When factually there never was any actual Israel in the past nor any valid claim for the territory, since Jews were an offshoot of Canaanite Arabs originally.
Jews to Canaanite religion is the same relationship as Mormons to Christianity.
Offshoots created by charlatans.
The Jewish settlers are still trying to steal land from the Palestinians today.
Al Nakba ( the Zionist persecution of Palestinians) lives on.?
You are ignorant and obstinate Dogspinner.?
You say and i quote Reality states that the Jews have no valid claim to Israel. Reality states it? Where pray tell is this reality in which you have unfettered access. Your reliance on the notion of mythology within Judaism is as i have repeatedly contended equally applicable to the mythology of other ethnic groups.? Will you wake up? History is not about the propriety of claims to land. It is about power. It is about might makes right. Point to any place on a globe and the people who occupy that land and that nation are there because of the power of their ancestors over others who are there or wanted to be there. Jews going back to Israel was a matter of historical inevitability.?
Furthermore, many Jews (Jews fit the criteria in your definition of an ethnic group) are atheists. Your ridiculous and absurd assertion that they are no longer Jewish is as laughable as your Irish continent, no it is far more laughable. You have special rules for Jews. You are not alone in your myopic echo chamber.?
If you want to say that an ethnic group must have land-Jews have it. They have it now. They had it in the past. I don't care about your contentions regarding ancient Israel. Jews were there back then. Jews are there now. They have land although it is irrelevant to the issue of culture. It is not in your definition that you provided. Consider the case of Gypsies. Similar to Jews they have wandered throughout Europe and have faced discrimination. Gypsies have a rich culture. That is what happens to any ethnic groups who are constantly having to fight to survive. Being a victim of persecution and racism and discrimination makes a culture stronger if it manages to stay together as Gypsies and Jews have.?
There are lessons to be learned.?
First, this exchange illustrates the importance of having a sense of history. Without it one is liable to succumb to the sophistry you have displayed.?
Second, one ought always be on guard against becoming an ideologue. If you find yourself agreeing with every single stance and disposition of an issue you are probably an ideologue. The sentiments of the left are mostly noble but the left has gone off the cliff in its antisemitism. The conflict between Israelis and Palestinians is complex. There is fault on both sides. To demonize all Jews for that conflict is to embrace the racism that is the enemy of liberalism.?
It has gotten so bad that Jewish feminists have been uninvited and shunned at feminist gatherings. And the hyperfocus on the Palestinian issue is a result of the demonization of Jews. Substitute any other ethnic group for Jews in Israel and it would barely be a story.?
I'm a pragmatist, or an evidentialist.
I go on factual evidence and it has been evident that the Zionists have since 1920s worked to rid Palestine of Islam and Palestinians.
But the Zionists have failed to make the entire region Jewish.
Which is based on the Torah BS claims for the land.
They don't have a warlord messiah as prescribed by the Torah.
Jesus was never a Jewish Messiah, because such a Messiah was supposed to be a warrior warlord who will regain ownership of their sacred land.
So Judaism is no different to Islam in it's idea of using the sword to gain dominance / land.
It never was a passive religion.
It only pretends to be passive, because of it's minority position.
Give it a majority and it will revert to being a war loving culture / religion.
It was stupid for Britain and the U.N. to agree to letting Zionists con them into granting them land in the region.
"Israel's disregard for the historical rights of Palestinians is deeply rooted in Zionist ideology. Indeed, from the very start, Zionist ideologues promoted the idea that Palestine was a place bereft of culture or heritage - an arid desert, waiting for Zionist pioneers to?make it "bloom". "
You are an evidentialist?
You lay blame entirely on Jews for the conflict. You deny that Jews are an ethnic group even though they meet your definition.? You insist that mythology is cause of Israel even though atheist Zionists as far back as 19th century knew Jews were subject to So much racism that they must find a homeland. You fail to account for historical inevitability in the wake of the holocaust. You fail to justify land seizures of other peoples who did so without any justification. In short you have a microscope on the Jews and you are like Chief inspector Clouseau in how you evaluate gentiles.
Your efforts to delegitimize and villainize Jews is evident to all but others of your ilk. Would it have been better if Jews had acted like Europeans in conquering and exploiting native peoples, seizing their land, raping their women, exploiting their resources, enslaving their people, imposing their religion?
Where is your moral indignation??
I never stated that Jews were not an ethnic group.
You are misrepresenting my comments.
Jews are an ethnic group, based on the stupid religion of Judaism.
Not on any other ground.
They are not a race based ethnic group, but a religion based ethnic group.
Thus attacking Jews is not racist.
Currently Israel's Zionist leadership is withholding Palestinian money on pretentious reasons.
Yet Palestinians are the rightful occupiers/settlers of the Gaza region and Israelis are not.
You really don't understand anything about history! :p?
Get an education!?
Al Nakba ( Zionist persecution of the rightful occupiers ( Palestinians)) continues.
BTW Frankie ol' M8!?
There is no false premise in claiming Jewish identity is entirely religion based.
It happens to be a fact.
To be Jewish means you are born into a tradition (thus an ethnic identity) of Judaism.
If you divorce yourself from that tradition, you are no longer part of that ethnic identity and thus no longer a Jew.
My ex-Jewish friends totally agree there.
They have divorced themselves from their ethnic tradition and even their families no longer consider them as members of their Jewish community.
If you don't adhere to or follow any of the Jewish traditions that make you a part of their ethnic culture, you really cannot call yourself a Jew.
Because of the fact that it is an identity entirely based on Judaic tradition.
A tradition that is entirely fraudulent.
So you are also saying that you are using the term "Racist" loosely and not stating a matter of fact, but a statement of your own naive and irrational bigotry.
Jews have no reality based claim for Israel.
That is an absolute fact! :p?
Mormons are an ethnic culture as are Jehovah's Witnesses.
Any group that people can be born into with a common belief or basis could be called an ethnic group.
If an island or community was based on worship of Elvis Presley it too can be labelled an ethnic community.
BTW: Frankie considers?Theodor Herzl as an atheist, which he never was.
He was a Jewish Journalist.
He wanted another Maccabee revolt where they established a Jewish state and proceeded to expel all non-Jews and Greeks.
The problem there is that Judaism is BS and no state should be based on BS.
Just as I'm against Islamic or Christian states.
They are all based on the same BS
I don't know of any such person as an Atheist Zionist.
They certainly were never rational critical thinkers.
No critical thinker would ever support Zionism.
Not the Jewish Zionism nor the African Christian Zionism.?
Frankie fails Critical Thinking 101..
Also fails Research 101.
Here is an actual critical thinker's views on Zionism and Israel.
And I agree with him that basing any state on superstitious nonsense is a terrible idea at best.